Veil, Msfvenom, Empire and Shellter - AV detection win

Hi,

@Zaid thanks for the material you have created.
As you mentioned there is a cat and mouse game between the AV editor and the guys who have created the tools I mention in the title.

So far based on the methods you describe in your training course none of those tools generate payloads (even without the full stager) that are undetected by the AV (I mean with a decent score).
I precise the tools are up-to-date on my kali machine and I have tried different combinations to change the signature of the payload (hex modifications, options tuning, encoding type and number of pass etc.) but I think those tools are extremely well-know by the AV editor and fortunately their heuristics seem fair enough to detect those auto-generated payloads whatever the options you try to trick.

So my question is, are those tools are still relevant for red teams in a pentest as it seems pretty impossible to generate an undetected payload ?

Am I missing some updates regarding the way to better use those tools ?
Do you have some working examples as for me none of the examples you use to illustrate your videos are working any more even with some different tuning.

Thank you by advance for your updates.
Regards,